Rudder Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Just wondering...Now that Transport Canada acknowledges that the CARs don't prohibit hot refuelling without someone at the controls as long as the frictions are on I am wondeing if any operators have amended the Ops Manuals to reflect this mind set... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalaa119 Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Here is a incident I found on the CADORS ! Interesting considering your comments! Select for print preview CADORS Number: 2007C2142 Reporting Region: Prairie & Northern Occurrence InformationOccurrence Type: Incident Occurrence Date: 2007/07/30 Occurrence Time: 0454 Z Day Or Night: day-time Fatalities: 0 Injuries: Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYYH Aerodrome Name: Taloyoak Occurrence Location: Taloyoak (CYYH) Province: Nunavut Country: CANADA World Area: North America Reported By: NAV CANADA AOR Number: 83463-V1 TSB Class Of Investigation: TSB Occurrence No.: Event InformationAlleged Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) infraction Aircraft InformationFlight #: Aircraft Category: Helicopter Country of Registration: CANADA Make: BELL TEXTRON - CAN Model: 206L Year Built: 1976 Amateur Built: No Engine Make: ALLISON Engine Model: 250-C20R/2 Engine Type: Turbo shaft Gear Type: Land Phase of Flight: Parked Damage: No Damage Owner: CUSTOM HELICOPTERS LTD. Operator: CUSTOM HELICOPTERS LTD. (3207) Operator Type: Commercial Detail InformationUser Name: Ridley, Rod Date: 2007/07/31 Further Action Required: Yes O.P.I.: Aviation Enforcement Narrative: The pilot of a Custom Helicopters Bell 206 landed at Taloyoak, exited the helicopter while it was still running, then proceeded to refuel the aircraft. Please note that for the most part, CADORS reports contain preliminary, unconfirmed data which can be subject to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudder Posted August 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Interesting...I work for a company that was recently 'caught' doing the same act and requested the pilot call the inspector for discussion. It seems that the Pacific Region is taking the stand they have nothing to enforce as the CARs say that precautions must have been taken to keep a/c from moving and not left unattended. Although they frown upon the practice they legally have nothing to enforce. Interestingly enought they mentioned nothing about the fact the act contravenes the Company Ops Manual. It will be interesting to see the result of the previous CADORs action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazy Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 koalaa 119 CARs may not be the concern. The pilot may have violated that airport's policy on hot refuelling. Taloyoak has its own refuellers, that you call to come and pump the fuel. More than one problem with what the pilot did. Hazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transientorque2 Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 koalaa 119 CARs may not be the concern. The pilot may have violated that airport's policy on hot refuelling. Taloyoak has its own refuellers, that you call to come and pump the fuel. More than one problem with what the pilot did. Hazeus Wait 2 hours, call out fee $100.00. 2 aircraft $200.00. No bargains, and no service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazy Posted August 11, 2007 Report Share Posted August 11, 2007 Wait 2 hours, call out fee $100.00. 2 aircraft $200.00. No bargains, and no service. Are you sure it isn't 90 after hours? I'm thinking that I've been there before. Excellent coffee at the terminal and good people, have to rinse out your own cup though. There is service there, never had a problem. So lets just break all the rules................... Hazeus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidkicker Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 A couple of years ago i heard a story of a 205 that burn down on a lake. Turns out the pump was still on when the ground crew had the hose pointed towards the inlet. The end result was nothing but a pile of aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Angry Egg Driver Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 That was a Delta 204 1/2.The kid refueling looked over to see if the pilot needed anymore fuel and as he did so the fuel hose came out of the tank and was directed into the exhaust stack.Apparentley the pilot looked over and saw the kid running and then figured out that he was on fire.I'm sure if Downwash is still around he can clarify a little better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted August 12, 2007 Report Share Posted August 12, 2007 I was in Pelly Bay (Kuggaruk?) and I advised the guy in the tower I would be in for fuel in 2 hrs, can he please contact the refueling guys. I then told him every 30 mins I would be in for fuel. I arrived there about the same time as a Canadian Helicopters LR on floats. We both waited 2 hrs for the refuelers to turn up, and when they did we were told to move because "the plane" is coming in (First Air Commercial flight). Seeing as I was close to camp, the Canadian guys still had 300 miles to go, I moved away from my pad and let them have the only other close spot to get fuel. Not to mention we both got hit up for cash....because of the call out fee! I know 3 pilots who have been asked for cash. So I got tired of waiting around for hours, it happened more then once. So I hot refueled one day...they were quick to get to the airport then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skids Up Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 So I got tired of waiting around for hours, it happened more then once. So I hot refueled one day...they were quick to get to the airport then! Why would you have to "hot fuel"in this instance? Why not just shut down and fuel and then leave? I have and do hot refuel and never have had a problem. It is not something you can or should do every time, but if the situation is suitable, and precautions are observed, it's a non issue. Frictions on, don't trust the hydraulics, and don't leave the machine. If set up properly, you will not need to go outside the rotor disk... Common sense, ...is there any out there anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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