A Time And A Place Fo Everything

[Winnie]

Yes RDM

Unfortunately we had Mr. Houde from TC in to do the 3 rides...

 

Went well of course, but it was a kafuffel for sure. One guy is soon ready for your well known and versed Chinese CFS Torture!

 

Talk to ya later

 

PS my ticket home is the 11th of Nov.

[Guest bag swinnger]

well thanks for all the responses every one, and thats pretty much what i expected to hear. maybe theres a bonus if the instructor also reads this thread.

hey vortex ring whats up with the slinging at night, do you guys where nvg's for that. I have gotta agree with you on hearing the words "hey watch this " had a good chuckle over that.

[Hover-Pig]

What great replies, thanks Kyle for such a terrific forum to share and learn from.

 

B/S, yeah slinging at night, doesn't everyone do that? I know it's seems crazy but Tactical Helicopter squadrons all do that or at least waaaaay back in the early eighties we did and no we did not have goggles back then. We had to be able to re-supply the Army guys day or night. It's perfectly safe but obviously done in VFR night weather.

 

I have always wondered why my commercial helo peers (most of you guys) don't sling at night?? Since a lot of jobs are under such time constraints and in the Arctic you don't have much choice in the winter, why not sling at night?

 

We did an exercise in Goose Bay back in the winter of 86/87 and we flew eight to ten hours straight of night slinging for several nights in a row, a constant daisy chain from a large frozen lake about twenty minutes north of Goose back to the airfield. If I recall correctly the Universal Helicopter guys at the time just shook their heads at us for doing this. I couldn't then and cannot now figure out what the big deal is?!

 

Now before I get shot out of the sky please remember that I do not refer to CARS from day to day for my military operations but I am pretty sure you can fly revenue hours in a single engine helo with one pilot at night so long as you are not carrying passengers, am I correct? If so, why not sling at night? If not why not and why not change it!

 

The moderator of this post can feel free to redirect this one to another new topic. I look forward to hearing from everyone with much more experience than me, please be gentle.

[RDM]

Universal in the late 80's, hmmmm..... make a face of yourself there Vortex, see if I know'd ya.

[VERTICAL REF]

...because you cannot fly a single engine helicopter for "revenue' at night...passangers or no passangers...and i sure as **** ain't gonna do it fur free!!!

[Hover-Pig]

RDM, could be, you never know. I was flying Twin Hueys and we visited the Universal hangar while we were in Goose but we had very little free time, we actually had a very busy exercise. One of the extremely few times in my military career where I flew a 100 hour month.

 

V/R, what is wrong with night flying? Why not fly revenue at night. If it's done night VFR with horizons etc, night is not scary at all. Besides these days with the advances in NVG and technology, why not use it for commercial use and generate revenue. Once again I'm just stirring your minds for feedback to learn more and not, I say again, not criticizing.

[Big Duke 6]

I don't know if you have read Vortex, but apperantly some people have problems slinging in the daytime let alone at night. In 8000+ hrs I have yet to meet a client that couldn't wait till morning, that includes SAR missions. It comes down to simple economics, the amount of time involved in training crew, having the appropriate amendments to your Ops manual, and having a A/C that qualifies for night flight slinging operations according to CARS is uneconomical. Poise that agianst the amount of actual revenue and high exposure to risk, a company would have to do a tremendous amount flying to keep the shareholders and underwriters happy. I realize that our military is not under the same budget constraints as in the civlian market place. However we are not trying to supply ammo, and medical support to our troops which, may or may not be under fire. As the the title of this forum suggests. There is a time and place for everything.

[VERTICAL REF]

Ringer there is nothing wrong with flying at night, but you cannot fly a single engine at night for revenue. Nor can you fly a twin engine at night for revenue unless it is on an approved transport canada IFR route...dems da laws! and like I said, I don't fly for free...

[407 Driver]

One good reason (??) for night slinging was many years ago in the Beaufort Sea....it was night all the time in the mid winter months, so the only way to get the job done was to night-sling. Okie and Bow used 212's, maybe even a 61? No, I never did any ...too young for that

[touchdown]

Having been in Vortex Ring State twice when I was learning long line, and seeing it from the ground once, I feel it's an appropriate lesson for all of us at an early point. Of course this should be after a pilot has the "feel" to sense impending VRS and correct accordingly. Before that all the regular cautions about the conditions needed to set it up should be stressed, stressed, and stressed. Demonstrating it is hard on A/C and I'm not sure it's recommended by the manufacturers. Having taught both long line and night slinging (short and long) I know how easy it is, even for an experienced driver who's working his butt off concentrating on something new, to miss the cues. This is particularly true during long line and night because a lot of normal cues are missing. If I think that my "nagging" voice saying "watch the descent, feel it" saved one butt I'm happy. The heavier the load and heavier the machine the more likely you are to create this condition but we all know it can appear in all single bladed rotor systems with or without a sling load. Learn it early, discuss it with students early and sit back and envy those guys on the Ka32 and BV107.

Night slinging is not as common now but someday the arctic will spool up and we could find ourselves humping loads in January again. That would be cool.