Pertaining to FIRES...the whole 702/703 thing....

[Beach Man]

Turns out a bit of a nothingburger...  Life goes on.

Anyone have any issues come up that could help the next guy?

[ironpilot]

last id seen was anything to do with fires was all 702

[Beach Man]

47 minutes ago, ironpilot said:

last id seen was anything to do with fires was all 702

Yes, looks like they realized to make it so. Makes life a lot easier that is for sure...

[Pool pilot]

Has anyone seen in writing that we can still do 42 and 5 and reset our hours?

Or more than 120 in 30 as laid out in the new regulations ?

 

[ironpilot]

5 hours ago, Pool pilot said:

Has anyone seen in writing that we can still do 42 and 5 and reset our hours?

Or more than 120 in 30 as laid out in the new regulations ?

 

wouldnt your current company COM tell you that you the company has the hour extension to 150? and the reset. I can say that I know I can do a 42 and 5 and 150 hours or 210 if you want to get technical and rest after 5 days off (ONLY 702)

 

BUTTTTTTT  that reset wouldnt apply to your 703 work so you would have to take days off until you fall back within those limits of 120 flight and 192 hours worked in 30

[Freewheel]

10 hours ago, Pool pilot said:

Has anyone seen in writing that we can still do 42 and 5 and reset our hours?

Or more than 120 in 30 as laid out in the new regulations ?

 

For 702 Aerial Work, it’s written into the 702 CARs and Commercial Air Service Standards (incorporated by reference).  Not applicable to 703 Air Taxi, 704 Commuter, which are regulated under the applicable 700 FRMS CARS.

As mentioned, TC recently amended the CARs/CASS to clarify to TC personnel that all Forest fire hire flights are indeed 702 aerial Work.

TC is still uncertain as to which basic  Air Operator Certification requirements (and Regulations) apply to the rest of the flights in Canadian VFR helicopter industry. It seems we just can’t fit into their one size fits all airline regulations. The Current air operator certification regulations were published 27 years ago, but they still really don’t know what we are lol

CARs

Time Free from Duty

702.96 (1) An air operator shall provide each flight crew member with the following time free from duty:

a) at least 24 consecutive hours 13 times within any 90 consecutive days and 3 times within any 30 consecutive days; and

b) when the member is a flight crew member on call, at least 36 consecutive hours within any 7 consecutive days or at least 3 consecutive days within any 17 consecutive days.

2) However, an air operator may provide a flight crew member with time free from duty other than as required by paragraph (1)(a) if 

a) the time free from duty is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.96 Requirements for Time Free from Duty

The standard for providing time free from duty other than as required by subsection 702.96(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations is:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, the 24 consecutive hours 3 times within any 30 consecutive days may be replaced by:

a) following at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty, a flight crew member may be assigned duty for up to 42 consecutive days; and,

b) the flight crew member shall receive at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty following any assignment that exceeds 27 

CARs

Maximum Flight Time

702.92 (1) Subject to subsection (2), an air operator shall not assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a flight crew member shall not accept such an assignment, if the member’s total flight time will, as a result, exceed

a) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days;

b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

c) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days or, in the case of a flight crew member on call, 100 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days; or

e) if the member conducts single-pilot IFR flights, eight hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

2) However, an air operator may assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a member may accept such an assignment, even if the member’s flight time will, as a result, exceed the flight time referred to in subsection (1) if

a) the extension of flight time is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.92 Maximum Flight Time

The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in any aircraft shall not exceed:

a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;

b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;

e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;

g) the accumulated 30 consecutive day, 42 consecutive day, and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; or,

h) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.

[Pool pilot]

14 hours ago, Freewheel said:

For 702 Aerial Work, it’s written into the 702 CARs and Commercial Air Service Standards (incorporated by reference).  Not applicable to 703 Air Taxi, 704 Commuter, which are regulated under the applicable 700 FRMS CARS.

As mentioned, TC recently amended the CARs/CASS to clarify to TC personnel that all Forest fire hire flights are indeed 702 aerial Work.

TC is still uncertain as to which basic  Air Operator Certification requirements (and Regulations) apply to the rest of the flights in Canadian VFR helicopter industry. It seems we just can’t fit into their one size fits all airline regulations. The Current air operator certification regulations were published 27 years ago, but they still really don’t know what we are lol

CARs

Time Free from Duty

702.96 (1) An air operator shall provide each flight crew member with the following time free from duty:

a) at least 24 consecutive hours 13 times within any 90 consecutive days and 3 times within any 30 consecutive days; and

b) when the member is a flight crew member on call, at least 36 consecutive hours within any 7 consecutive days or at least 3 consecutive days within any 17 consecutive days.

2) However, an air operator may provide a flight crew member with time free from duty other than as required by paragraph (1)(a) if 

a) the time free from duty is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.96 Requirements for Time Free from Duty

The standard for providing time free from duty other than as required by subsection 702.96(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations is:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, the 24 consecutive hours 3 times within any 30 consecutive days may be replaced by:

a) following at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty, a flight crew member may be assigned duty for up to 42 consecutive days; and,

b) the flight crew member shall receive at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty following any assignment that exceeds 27 

CARs

Maximum Flight Time

702.92 (1) Subject to subsection (2), an air operator shall not assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a flight crew member shall not accept such an assignment, if the member’s total flight time will, as a result, exceed

a) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days;

b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

c) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days or, in the case of a flight crew member on call, 100 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days; or

e) if the member conducts single-pilot IFR flights, eight hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

2) However, an air operator may assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a member may accept such an assignment, even if the member’s flight time will, as a result, exceed the flight time referred to in subsection (1) if

a) the extension of flight time is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.92 Maximum Flight Time

The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in any aircraft shall not exceed:

a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;

b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;

e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;

g) the accumulated 30 consecutive day, 42 consecutive day, and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; or,

h) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.

Thanks.

[Pool pilot]

19 hours ago, ironpilot said:

wouldnt your current company COM tell you that you the company has the hour extension to 150? and the reset. I can say that I know I can do a 42 and 5 and 150 hours or 210 if you want to get technical and rest after 5 days off (ONLY 702)

 

BUTTTTTTT  that reset wouldnt apply to your 703 work so you would have to take days off until you fall back within those limits of 120 flight and 192 hours worked in 30

Thanks as I was thinking the same way as you but did not find what Freck sent.

[Diaper_Pin]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:01 PM, Freewheel said:

For 702 Aerial Work, it’s written into the 702 CARs and Commercial Air Service Standards (incorporated by reference).  Not applicable to 703 Air Taxi, 704 Commuter, which are regulated under the applicable 700 FRMS CARS.

As mentioned, TC recently amended the CARs/CASS to clarify to TC personnel that all Forest fire hire flights are indeed 702 aerial Work.

TC is still uncertain as to which basic  Air Operator Certification requirements (and Regulations) apply to the rest of the flights in Canadian VFR helicopter industry. It seems we just can’t fit into their one size fits all airline regulations. The Current air operator certification regulations were published 27 years ago, but they still really don’t know what we are lol

CARs

Time Free from Duty

702.96 (1) An air operator shall provide each flight crew member with the following time free from duty:

a) at least 24 consecutive hours 13 times within any 90 consecutive days and 3 times within any 30 consecutive days; and

b) when the member is a flight crew member on call, at least 36 consecutive hours within any 7 consecutive days or at least 3 consecutive days within any 17 consecutive days.

2) However, an air operator may provide a flight crew member with time free from duty other than as required by paragraph (1)(a) if 

a) the time free from duty is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.96 Requirements for Time Free from Duty

The standard for providing time free from duty other than as required by subsection 702.96(1) of the Canadian Aviation Regulations is:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, the 24 consecutive hours 3 times within any 30 consecutive days may be replaced by:

a) following at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty, a flight crew member may be assigned duty for up to 42 consecutive days; and,

b) the flight crew member shall receive at least 5 consecutive periods of 24 consecutive hours free from duty following any assignment that exceeds 27 

CARs

Maximum Flight Time

702.92 (1) Subject to subsection (2), an air operator shall not assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a flight crew member shall not accept such an assignment, if the member’s total flight time will, as a result, exceed

a) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days;

b) 300 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

c) 120 hours in any 30 consecutive days or, in the case of a flight crew member on call, 100 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days; or

e) if the member conducts single-pilot IFR flights, eight hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

2) However, an air operator may assign flight time to a flight crew member, and a member may accept such an assignment, even if the member’s flight time will, as a result, exceed the flight time referred to in subsection (1) if

a) the extension of flight time is authorized in the air operator certificate; and

b) the air operator and the member comply with the Commercial Air Service Standards.

Commercial Air Service Standards

722.92 Maximum Flight Time

The standards for increasing the flight time limitations for flight crew members are:

1) Except for a helicopter conducting heli-logging, for any 6 non-overlapping periods of 30 consecutive days within a 365 consecutive day period, the maximum flight time in any aircraft shall not exceed:

a) where the flight crew member conducts single-pilot IFR operations, 8 hours in any 24 consecutive hours;

b) 60 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

c) 150 hours in any 30 consecutive days;

d) 210 hours in any 42 consecutive days;

e) 450 hours in any 90 consecutive days;

f) 900 hours in any 180 consecutive days;

g) the accumulated 30 consecutive day, 42 consecutive day, and 90 consecutive day flight times may be reset to zero if the flight crew member is provided with at least 5 consecutive days free from all duty; or,

h) 1,200 hours in any 365 consecutive days.

Thanks Chad, hope all is well in your neck of the woods.

 

[Beach Man]

So no real change as long as you stay 702. 😀