R-22 Training Crash

[sharkbait]

OK I give up! - Who is AE? Amelia Earhart? Been wondering where she had got to.

Sorry, my point was that if you are riding with someone with dual controls installed and are not in an instuctor role it had better be darn clear who the pilot in command is.

If you do not have enough confidence to ride with fellow then , duals or not, best not to get aboard. A wrestling match over the controls at the bottom of whatever manuever is not going well is not going to help keep you hale and hardy.

It seemed, to me, in your post you were refering to riding with someone as a "passenger" on a crew change or something of that nature.

Trust me - you would not be the first person to refuse to ride along in an a/c with no duals. It all depends on the circumstances.

[raqattack]

Well aint that too bad. here we were havng a nice little love in and trying to encourage a kid ...

 

Cry me a river that's a nearly 35 year old "kid" who's all grown up. What's at issue is flight safety, and if you are more interested in beer and virgins, that's your problem.

[raqattack]

 

"Guess it is true. Any landing you wallk away from is a good one!"

So they say, that is until you've got a hundred miles of bush to walk out of.

:shock: an instuctor and a student? - Never should have happened -most likely a little bit of care would have kept it upright.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[raqattack]

 

OK I give up! - Who is AE?

 

Al Eustis - Who apparently doesn't have much confidence in many new era pilots either.

[Ryan]

Just curious Raqattack, how long have you been flying helicopters. How long have you been instructing?

 

And what do you do differently from other instructors to keep from making a pilot you don't have confidence in?

 

Not meant as a jab, just wondering.

[Iceman]

Disrespect? You bet, if that's what it takes - Perhaps you should turn your attention to the disregard some in this forum show towards the operator and the unnecessary losses that were incurred. ( "You lucky guy. You got yours out of the way in the first week") etc.

 

Where's the disrespect for the operator?

[rotrhd1]

tarmac on skids at 10 Knots going straight (having touched down) - what then?

 

(Personally in real life I would  progressively slow the ship down in the shallowest possible decent to a crosswind heading 2 or three feet agl while planning for a controlled throttle roll-off resulting in an into wind landing at zero groundspeed - preferrably on the flat grass in the infield which could help absorb the shock of any small errors I may have made)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm also interested in the answers to the questions Ryan asked Raq. And, no, I'm not looking for any lessons, at least not from you. Thanks anyway.

 

Although, I do have to say that your procedure for the stuck pedals sounds pretty close to the objective I shoot for in that exercise, except again for the grass part.

 

In your perfect world, with you at the controls, I'm sure that's how it would go (I don't believe for a second that you might make any small errors at all), but in the training world it doesn't always go exactly as it should.

 

That's where good instructors make there money... allowing the learner to perform the exercise to the best of their ability, letting them make some mistakes so that they might learn from these and become the best pilots their abilities allow them to be. All the while trying to not let things get too far out of hand so as to become disasterous.

 

I think you've probably got some good points, somewhere in your posts Raq, you just need to put a bit of polish on how you post. Like Deuce says, get a better outlook.

 

RH1

[justfly]

...As far as we can tell ...

 

...I am still flying with the white knuckle deathgrip - something I will have to work at ...

 

...I do hope this does make me a better pilot. It wasn't that I didn't respect the machine before, but now that is at a whole new level...

RW - thanks for the further clarification. Your summary reinforces the need for clear communication and understanding on both instructor and student's parts, especially prior to practicing emergency procedures.

 

The "white knuckle deathgrip" thing is tough. The helicopter (particularly our sensitive little friend the R22) can not be smoothly flown with tensed muscles. Yet trying to relax when you're not yet confident of the results of your inputs is a bit of a catch-[R]22! It is an issue I believe many (most?) pilots have had to resolve. I believe it takes some time to achieve that optimal balance between totally relaxed and always vigilant (spring-loaded) to handle the unexpected. You want to be aware, not afraid. Some employ the finger-tips grips only method to not squeeze the black out of the collective and cyclic. Discuss with your instructor, he may have other little helpful tricks. You can & will overcome this obstacle as many before you have.

 

You will become a better pilot due to the unfortunate luxury of your experience. Thanks again for your willingness to share your experience so that we all might learn.

[gannet]

I find it interesting that some instructors do hover/taxi PFLs only over tarmac/pavement. Here in Portage, our orders require us to do them only over the grass pads or Grabber Green (practice auto field). While I don't have as much instructional time as a civilian IP(military flying rates are not large), I do know how quickly the world can go to crap. I have thought of hover/taxi PFLs as fairly benign til now. I'm still learning, and I know that excessive lateral cyclic is something I will watch for more carefully.

 

Thanks for posting your view of the accident. Something to take with you in your career, is that sometimes the right thing to do, is the hardest.

[Skidz]

Please define "PFL". I spent my whole training course working at "PFL1" at CYHU and no one was ever able to tell me what that damned TLA meant !!!