Definition Of "flight Time"?

[skyward]

There seems to be some difference of opinion when it comes to the topic of recording "Flight Time" for your Flight/Duty limits. Some say it is the time interval from the 1st start of the day until you shutdown on your last flight of the day. Others say that it is only the accumulated time, from the moment the skids leave the ground til they touch the ground on return ("Air Time"). Is there such a thing as the "Real" difinition?

[Firehawk]

There is a difference between flight time and duty time, duty time is a shady area, Is it when you leave your house? Is it when you get to work? or is it when you hit the starter, many have different views on it, I'm sure you will get many, Flight time on the other hand, Is it when you pull pitch and the hobbs starts? or when you hit the starter?

I have seen them used in many ways. Duty time for me is when I set foot in the door at work until I leave at the end of the day. Flight time to me is when I pull pitch and the hobbs starts until it stops. Total accumulation gives you your flight time. I know some who have accumulated many hours by sitting on the ground at idle, That to me is not rhe right way.

[Needles Split]

If you're sitting at the controls and them blades are turning.......that is considered flight time

I believe the regs are called " Flight Time / Duty Time" limitations......seems clear to me, however, if your in a VFR operation the "Flight Time" recorded is usually from skids off to skids on the ground......which can also be found on the flight report. Anyone that records air time for their flight/duty time records is opening themselves up to TC if an audit happens to stroll into town.

 

That's my two cents

[swashplate]

AIP AIR 4.1 refers.

 

cheers

[Helilog56]

Hey boys and girls.....don't confuse aircraft flight time with pilot flight duty time....

[Sisyphus]

The rules regarding flight duty times in Canada are truly Draconian. The fourteen hour duty day is excessive. In fact, as far as helicopters are concerned, the day can be longer, in spite of the reality that helicopter piloting is amongst the most demanding and fatigueing types of flying.

 

Transport Canada claims that the Canadian rules are comparable with other jurisdicitons and that when the Canadian rules were promulgated it was done so considering the regulations in other jurisdictions. The Canadian rules are almost identical to those to the USA but differ substantially from those in both Australia and The United Kingdom.

 

The length of the duty day flies in the face of other federal labour legislation that puts limits on the number of hours that other Canadians work daily and weekly. In fact, the Canadian rules likely contribute to pilot fatigue rather than prevent it. It is true that the regulations give the pilot the option to refuse to fly if he is or is likely to become fatigued. Try this some time and see what happens. The following is a quote from a man who has a postition of some responsibility in a central Canadian helicopter company of some size.

 

) if you can't fly up to what the regulations state or don't know the area that well....then don't. Also expect to loose your job on the first count and to at least be moved to another area on the second count. If I'm the owner, then that's what you can expect based on your previous performance. If you CAN'T perform up to the regulations then you don't have the experience that I need (that's my fault).......otherwise, if you WON'T perform up to those regulations........get a lawyer because you're "toast" at my place of employment.

 

3) If one feels that one can only be "on-duty" for is 8hrs then one needs to find a position with Air Canada or perhaps HeliJet because I am not asking you to break regulations when I ask you to fly for 8 hours. Otherwise, if you work for me you will get 3 things: 1) the name "prima donna" 2) the name "mattress-back" and 3) a "pink slip" so you can ride the bench down at the local EI Office for 8hrs.

 

 

This medieval attitude is prevalent amongst Canadian operators.

 

There is no known mechanism within Transport Canada to which pilots can appeal if they claim fatigue and are then intimidated for doing so. In fact, there are no obvious channels for appeal within Transport Canada if a pilot is intimidated if he refuses to fly fatigued, overgross or in questionable weather. This is entirely contrary to the modern management dictum that suggests that responsibility must be complimented with authority. Pilots have the responsibility for safe flight but do not really have the authority to enforce their decisions.

 

Inexperienced pilots should be unanimously in favour of shorter days as the requirement for pilots would increase.

[Winnie]

Flight time/air time/duty time

 

I log flight time from Push of starter until fuel cut-off

I log Air time from Skids off until skids down

I log duty time from I walk in the door at the office in the morning, until I walk out the door at the end. Although I think it is theoretically correct to count it until you do the last shut down of the day...

 

TC don't think Flight time differs from air time since the A/C doe snot move, but then I say, let the apprentice start the machine and do the run up, then I jump in and he out when the A/C is ready.

 

Air ime is air time

 

Duty time, well that is a hard one... :up:

[Helilog56]

The rules regarding flight duty times in Canada are truly Draconian.  The fourteen hour duty day is excessive.  In fact, as far as helicopters are concerned, the day can be longer, in spite of the reality that helicopter piloting is amongst the most demanding and fatigueing types of flying. 

 

Transport Canada claims that the Canadian rules are comparable with other jurisdicitons and that when the Canadian rules were promulgated it was done so considering the regulations in other jurisdictions.  The Canadian rules are almost identical to those to the USA but differ substantially from those in both Australia and The United Kingdom.

 

The length of the duty day flies in the face of other federal labour legislation that puts limits on the number of hours that other Canadians work daily and weekly.  In fact, the Canadian rules likely contribute to pilot fatigue rather than prevent it.  It is true that the regulations give the pilot the option to refuse to fly if he is or is likely to become fatigued.  Try this some time and see what happens.  The following is a quote from a man who has a postition of some responsibility in a central Canadian helicopter company of some size.

This medieval attitude is prevalent amongst Canadian operators.

 

There is no known mechanism within Transport Canada to which pilots can  appeal if they claim fatigue and are then intimidated for doing so.  In fact, there are no obvious channels for appeal within Transport Canada if a pilot is intimidated if he refuses to fly fatigued, overgross or in questionable weather.  This is entirely contrary to the modern management dictum that suggests that responsibility must be complimented with authority.  Pilots have the responsibility for safe flight but do not really have the authority to enforce their decisions.

 

Inexperienced pilots should be unanimously in favour of shorter days as the requirement for pilots would increase.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

......"YAWN".....

[skyward]

If you're sitting at the controls and them blades are turning.......that is considered flight time

I believe the regs are called " Flight Time / Duty Time" limitations......seems clear to me, however, if your in a VFR operation the "Flight Time" recorded is usually from skids off to skids on the ground......which can also be found on the flight report. Anyone that records air time for their flight/duty time records is opening themselves up to TC if an audit happens to stroll into town.

 

That's my two cents

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now would that be 'TC" Pacific region, "TC" Western region, "TC" Central region..... I was always with the understanding that "TC" was a FEDERAL or have I been missing something?

[skyward]

The rules regarding flight duty times in Canada are truly Draconian.  The fourteen hour duty day is excessive.  In fact, as far as helicopters are concerned, the day can be longer, in spite of the reality that helicopter piloting is amongst the most demanding and fatigueing types of flying. 

 

Transport Canada claims that the Canadian rules are comparable with other jurisdicitons and that when the Canadian rules were promulgated it was done so considering the regulations in other jurisdictions.  The Canadian rules are almost identical to those to the USA but differ substantially from those in both Australia and The United Kingdom.

 

The length of the duty day flies in the face of other federal labour legislation that puts limits on the number of hours that other Canadians work daily and weekly.  In fact, the Canadian rules likely contribute to pilot fatigue rather than prevent it.  It is true that the regulations give the pilot the option to refuse to fly if he is or is likely to become fatigued.  Try this some time and see what happens.  The following is a quote from a man who has a postition of some responsibility in a central Canadian helicopter company of some size.

This medieval attitude is prevalent amongst Canadian operators.

 

There is no known mechanism within Transport Canada to which pilots can  appeal if they claim fatigue and are then intimidated for doing so.  In fact, there are no obvious channels for appeal within Transport Canada if a pilot is intimidated if he refuses to fly fatigued, overgross or in questionable weather.  This is entirely contrary to the modern management dictum that suggests that responsibility must be complimented with authority.  Pilots have the responsibility for safe flight but do not really have the authority to enforce their decisions.

 

Inexperienced pilots should be unanimously in favour of shorter days as the requirement for pilots would increase.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said!! :up: :up: