Skidz Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Cadors Number: 2014P1964 Occurrence Category(ies): Abnormal runway contact Other Occurrence Information Occurrence Type: Accident Occurrence Date: 2014-11-18 Occurrence Time: 1717 Z Day Or Night: day-time Fatalities: 0 Injuries: 0 Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYLW Aerodrome Name: KELOWNA BC (CYLW) Occurrence Location: KELOWNA BC (CYLW) Province: British Columbia TC Region: Pacific Region Country: Canada World Area: North America Reported By: NAV CANADA Transportation Safety Board of Canada AOR Number: 181584-V1 TSB Class Of Investigation: Class 5 TSB Occurrence No: A14P0197 Occurrence Event Information Aircraft Information Registration Mark: GOHE Foreign Registration: Flight #: Flight Rule: VFR Aircraft Category: Helicopter Country of Registration: Canada Aircraft Make: ROBINSON Aircraft Model: R22 BETA Year Built: 1998 Amateur Built: No Engine Make: AVCO LYCOMING Engine Model: O-360-J2A Engine Type: Reciprocating Gear Type: Land Phase Of Flight: Landing Damage: Substantial Owner: Okanagan Mountain Helicopters Ltd Operator: OKANAGAN MOUNTAIN HELICOPTERS LTD. (14897) Operator Type: Commercial CARs Subpart: 406 Aircraft Event InformationHard landing ELT Occurrence Summary Date: 2014-11-19 Further Action Required: Yes O.P.I.: Commercial & Business Aviation Narrative: While on a training flight, an Okanagan Mountain Helicopters Robinson R22 Beta (C-GOHE) on a local flight from Kelowna, BC (CYLW) suffered a hard landing. Emergency locator transmitter (ELT) was set off. No injuries and minimal damage to aircraft. ELT was turned off after four minutes. No operational impact. Date: 2014-11-24 Further Action Required: Yes O.P.I.: Commercial & Business Aviation Narrative: UPDATE: TSB Report#A14P0197: The Okanagan Helicopters R22, C-GOHE, with an instructor and student on board were practising auto rotations. RPM was not recovered in time and there was a hard landing. The skid gear was spread and the ELT activated. There were no injuries. Please note that for the most part, CADORS reports contain preliminary, unconfirmed data which can be subject to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin lizzie Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Double post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinstar_ca Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 not anymore.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastwonder Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 There has been a lot of talk about auto training. What is the feeling here about the risks of training vs the posable rewards I ask this as a story just broke in California of another fatal crash of an R22 doing auto training Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliRico Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Iy's not in CAL but in palm spring FL. Student lives and instructor died.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGP Posted January 1, 2015 Report Share Posted January 1, 2015 Full on auto's for sure.You aint getting nothing doing power recoveries.Its the last 20 feet that you better know what you are doing.Getting there at the right height and airspeed are very important for sure but putting it on the ground takes lots of practise and if you haven;t done it in training it aint gonna do any good when the real thing happens.I love doing full on autos.Thanks to Al Lang. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helilog56 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 As DGP stated, full on's all the way. I am fortunate to stay current utilizing my instructors rating on occasion with the lights and intermediates.....they just won't let us do any with the skycrane's....****!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bell-powered Posted January 15, 2015 Report Share Posted January 15, 2015 Helilog hahaha that I would love to see!I think the main issue is having pilots fresh out of school, or a few years in, teaching new students.. eventually there will be a crash.. Thats where the US is lacking.. In Canada its going that way with insurance rates going up etc, but hey, if we had better trainers, wouldnt there less incidents? I am very fortunate to do my recurrent with a extremely good training pilot. And there is full ons all the day from all angles height speed weights, how else are you gonna learn? We do them in both 44's and 206'sYou imagine having full seats in any machine, and the stove quits at 50 ft on final to a hill, atleast if you have done em, you might be able to save a few souls, if all you done is power recovery on a flat fielt, run ons etc... its not gonna end well. I Think TC should implement mandatory full ons during initial and recurrent training... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefttoelow Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 The R22 was never designed with training in mind. It was built for personal transport use only. Why is it so popular at FTU's? Cost of course. As long as it continues to be used for training there will always be accidents. The "T" style cyclic set up when duals installed is far less than ideal for training/transfer of control and follow through techniques. I read somewhere once, that one has roughly 0.9 of a second to reduce to flat pitch post engine failure before potential catastrophic NR decay occurs. Just ask any instructor how much they enjoy doing autos in an R22....? Wrong aircraft for the job......imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGP Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Another slot for the 505.With that rotor and controls it should be a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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