Air Time Vs. Flight Time

[Skids Up]

For 35 + years it's been easy. If it goes into the A/C logbook, it goes into mine. Nothing more, nothing less. Never had I had anyone look at my logbook, (except in the USA for training requirements) to see if I "agreed" with any aircraft logbook.

 

I have no idea how many hours I "lost" (nor do I care) as it has not seemed to make any difference anywhere.

 

No one would ever be able to check on the accuracy of my (your) logbook - too many aircraft over too much time - so what does it matter?

 

If a customer get charged for ground time, I get to log it, if not, I don't.

 

Can't even begin to understand why we have to keep dragging out the CARs and let everyone give their opinion on what they mean or what they are saying....

 

How many out there, when applying for a job, were asked for how many hours you had, and then had anyone say "Prove it". Maybe I was lucky, nobody ever asked me to do it...

 

(...except in the states, and then it wasn't prove how many you had, just show us where you have logged the type of hours we need to see, ie X-country, altitude, dual, etc.)

 

 

Who has figgered out how many hours they "lost" over their career because of the difference between flight, ground, air, taxi and pretend time?

 

 

Let the debate roll on .....

 

[Gary Watson]

 

 

A buddy of mine works heavy maintenance at Air Canada in Dorval. He regularly taxis Airbuses and 767s around the maintenance facility on their own power. If he needs to taxi accross to line maintenance (and talk to ground control), then he needs a pilot on board.

 

I wonder if this is an Air Canada rule or Dorval Airport's re the taxying across actives and using the radio as most if not all AMEs I know have a radio license and part of run up courses is taxying. At lease here i YYC you don't need a pilot on board-- unless you can get him to get you coffee :shock:

[sk76driver]

I wonder where the saying beating a dead horse came from?

:punk: :punk:

 

 

[sk76driver]

So when training in winter under a hobbs meter and it takes you 15 minutes to get the oils up to temperature, how much of that time is charged to a student?

[nobul]

you cant log engine time in your personal log until you are either flying EMS or offshore in a twin, once you are doing either one of these you can also log it all as PIC even if you are flying right seat or downstairs in the loo!!

 

[cap]

Hobbs Meter? Isn't that the instrument that gets activated by raising the collective so much?............even when you're sitting solidly on THE GROUND? Ahhh yes.......very accurate instrument they tell me.

[worldywings]

you cant log engine time in your personal log until you are either flying EMS or offshore in a twin, once you are doing either one of these you can also log it all as PIC even if you are flying right seat or downstairs in the loo!!

 

 

Didn't see that in the CARS

[simpleton]

It's pretty simple. If the engines running, it's flight time, if the skids are off the ground it's air time. You can legally log the flight time, however, it may be hard to justify to the boss, or transport, in case of a logbook audit. This is due to the fact air-time and billing time seem to be the only numbers ever documented by companies, which may not (will not) match your logbook for flight-time . It's much easier to track these things in fixed-wing.....when you get to helicopters it becomes a little grey. Just log what is reasonable and it won't raise eyebrows when your logbook is checked.

[Guest plumber]

And this is where the arguement should have ended. If you are logging for ground run ups for maint. you are obviously desperate to get away from your current situation. Hopefully an employer can tell the difference between a guy or girl who has gained their hours on the ground or in the air. Hours matter only to insurance companies and the only time they look into it is when they go to sue you( after they found out your PIC time was all ground run ups and you killed someone). So grey area or not be reasonable. Signed 928 Hr. give or take nobody.

 

 

Boy you guys certainly like to confuse yourselves;

 

What the CARS is saying to you is the following; Anytime a PILOT is at the controls of an aircraft and it is under power on the ground to when it returns from a flight and is on the ground, is considered "FLIGHT TIME" for the pilots log book.

 

When an aircraft leaves the ground and later returns is considered "AIR TIME" and is entered into the aircraft log book and is what is charged to the customer (if there is one) as this is the actual operating cost to the operator and what an hourly rate is based on.

 

You will find that people working on XX dollars per hour, it's based on the air time charged to the customer.

 

Don

 

[Translation]

CHL has a column in the a/c journey log for operational time or "Ops Time" , this is the time billed to the customer, ideally engine running time. This column helps document those running hours. It has no relevance to any component times or the "airtime" column.

 

There seems to be some exceptions however, such as companies billing airtime or hobbs time, or even accumulated minutes of the day. This trend is backwards as it's taking low rates and making them even effectively lower. Please, whomever is dreaming up this nonsense, as some advantage over the competition, give your head a shake. It's taking the industry towards less profitablity. As someone mentioned, we are still at the controls, fuel is being cunsumed, and the aircraft essentially working.